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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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good morning afternoon evening Richard

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once again in the inner zone Stefan you

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know in the zone there's no time zones

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in the zone did you know that all that's

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amazing I know it's like people could

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listen to us any time of the day in fact

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in any part of the universe you can be

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Curtis know us with that with no bounds

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on time at all that's true and in fact

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people are listening to us right now and

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it's one o'clock in the afternoon yeah

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two o'clock it's 2 and so on yes oh

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that's just first time yeah it's um it's

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it's pretty good and welcome back

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everybody because we've had a wonderful

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time since the the first launch of the

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zone one the zone 1 and then we had a

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little zone 2 which was skeptics in the

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pub but thank you to everybody who's

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subscribing we've got over a thousand

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iTunes subscribers now and we're just

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about the crack about two thousand

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downloads all together my goodness

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that's going to make some of the other

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skeptic shows extremely envious and

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probably create a bigger so underlying

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hatred amongst the skeptic in either not

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envious ya know that's it's great but

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what one thing I must say it's really

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great that there are so many really cool

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skeptic shows and and as we we've just

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one contender absolutely good but it's

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also great to see so much skepticism in

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the world at the moment I think so I

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think so and they're all collecting into

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the zone that's what I think they are

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the zone and I feel them those other

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shows they'll be envious after today's

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episode that's right why we've got

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another live recording we did at dragon

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con 2008 this time we're talking to dr.

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ginger Campbell who has her own podcast

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called brain science Oh awesome yeah

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street pretty amazing brain Stein so how

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the brain works and all that I've been

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thinking about that a bit lately i was

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thinking imagine if we evolved to a

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point where but the same way we pick up

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vision that we can actually pick up

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television with sensors that actually

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plug into our brains we all just tuned

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into TV channels Wow it could happen in

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all radio or podcasts or same thing so

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its up this is coming in there oh my

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good oh but good as it's a skeptic zone

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number two oh yeah he looks me do it now

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everybody wasn't it still is that's

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great to be here Richard and else we got

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then we've got a new segment dr. rachy

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reports dr. rachel dunlop a cell

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biologist takes on quackery and

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today she's going to kick off her new

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segment with live blood analysis live

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blood and now let us know it sounds

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scary oh boy so I'm looking forward to

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that new segment and then that's

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followed by the regular think tank oh

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that's great fun nice little theme for

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that slightly less shadow 2 is the think

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tank theme I don't know I don't know

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where that came probably just fell out

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of the hair magically into the zone I

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really like that and people have been

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commenting on the song theme song and

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then been downloading it for their uh

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their telephones their cell phones oh no

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yeah if you go to the skeptic as own

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website yeah and its continued TV you

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can download our theme song as your

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ringtone and I must say thank you to all

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the emails it's been fantastic um I

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didn't expect to get so many and so many

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people were saying how much they enjoyed

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the think tank second especially it's

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great isn't it's really cares really

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laid back and yeah the nice Ozzy kind of

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pub Club atmosphere it isn't today's

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episode is interesting because there was

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a mahjong tournament happening in the

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background we didn't expect that what

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happens in our people I yell out mahjong

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when they know that they make a lot of

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clattering noise but you'll hear it

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later okay all right looking forward to

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that well we'd better get into it then

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let's let's dive into the zone zone

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I think we can move on with our first

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guest for the afternoon and I'd like to

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call up this lovely lady some of you may

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have heard of her she has a yeah ginger

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Campbell dr. Campbell she has a article

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in the most recent issue of The

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Skeptical Inquirer I believe that's her

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theme music this wasn't scripted it was

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meant to be waltzing matilda so ginger

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welcome to the zone I gotta get used to

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saying the new word the skeptic zone

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thank you Richard so are you run the

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brain science podcast yes I've been

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doing it since december of 2006 skeptic

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ality was one of my early influences

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yeah yeah one of the wonderful things I

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like about your podcast is your so

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diverse because you also have an

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additional podcast on the side about

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books and I must admit when I first

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started thinking about getting into

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podcasting and vodcast seen one of the

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things that inspired me was to think I

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don't just have to do X I can go for my

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interests i can go I mean you talked

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about Harry Potter which is rocks as far

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as i could said it's fantastic well i

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have to mention the grand-am of

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podcasting which is Murr Lafferty

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everybody knows Moreau whoo Murr was my

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influence on starting that podcast

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because when well me back up for a

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second the brain science podcast really

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came out of a early little short piece I

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did for the sci-fi show which is an

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Australian podcast and I had been

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thinking about podcasting but couldn't

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come up with what I wanted to do and I I

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submit Jason Rennie who does the sci-fi

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show i'm sorry that's I think I said the

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name of it wrong sci-fi show it's a

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combination of science fiction and

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philosophy and on his discussion forum

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there was always people talking about

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the brain and mostly what they said was

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wrong and I realized that there was a

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need for people to have better

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information and and I kept trying to

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tell him well this is a good book you

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could read and this is a good book you

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could read and this is and finally he

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writes to me and says well you could do

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a book review for me so i did on

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intelligence by jeff hawkins and he only

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gave me five minutes which for me meant

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much editing but that once I did that

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first of all it got me over that whole

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hump of doing the first recording which

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the first one is the hardest if you're

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interested in getting into podcasting

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and I was just so jazzed by I said this

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is it because the brain I won't ever run

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out of topics but I was inspired by mer

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because at that point she had I should

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be riding and through action grip geek

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foo was a real well there at both of her

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shows are very personal but I got the

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idea from her that if I was going to do

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the brain science podcast that's not the

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only thing I'm interested in yeah I mean

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I'm to be as most of you if you have

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ever heard my show you know I'm not a

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neuroscientist I'm an ER doctor so I

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dude the brain science podcast because

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it's something I read about and want to

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share with others but I read other

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things like Harry Potter so I thought

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I'll have a second show and that's where

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I'll put everything that doesn't fit and

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when i first started i tried to do one

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show every week i was alternating that

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didn't last very long so no one knows

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that and so if you went into my feed for

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books and ideas you'll find that there's

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some really bad early episodes where I

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tried to say this week i'm reading blah

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blah and stuff and these were the worst

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books on audible.com last year and i

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gave that up but still the great thing

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about books and ideas and i appreciate

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you giving me a chance to mention it is

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that it allows me to do anything so I've

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done Harry Potter I interview other

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podcasters I have Eugenie Scott is my

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most recent episode and you know she's

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she had just been interviewed by swoopy

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and of course swoopy

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a great interviewer but Eugenie is also

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a great guest and we were able to take

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the subject in a different direction

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when we talked when I talked with her we

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actually talked about how she works with

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Christians because you know it's easy

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for skeptics to think get kind of into a

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zone of this whole evolution of creation

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and evolution versus creationism is a

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religion vs atheism issue but it isn't

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and and it's it's certainly something

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that Karen has right focused on as well

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and so we talked about the work she's

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doing with churches and the work that

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she's doing with scientists who are also

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Christians encouraging them to help

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their members to become better educated

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and to not fall for the right wing da

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you know the right-wing propaganda that

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if you believe in god you have to reject

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evolution because let's face it most

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people aren't going to give up their

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belief in God but that doesn't mean that

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they can't no accurate science and

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that's also the point of view I take on

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the brain science podcast so when I

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touch on something that might lead a

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skeptic to go into a very you know this

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just knocks down that common belief i

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will mention it but i don't take a real

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what i call radical skeptic position

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because my goal is to be a have a show

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that everyone with the brain can listen

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to and and I don't intentionally try to

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alienate a person who has beliefs

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because I think the more you learn then

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the belief parts going to take care of

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itself if you're open minded your

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release is going to change over time

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well it's never an easy thing I know

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that but just talking about Eugenie

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Scott she was a very early guest on the

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skeptic tank when it was an audio show

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in fact I I have a lovely conversation

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rajini Scott she's always welcome on any

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podcast I think are you familiar with

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Eugenie Scott in the work she does and

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media yes

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in fact i hope to interview her probably

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next week oh listen because i'll be

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spending some time in the bay area and

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she's well worth having if any of you

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want to start a podcast ring up Jamie

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Scott need everywhere register she's

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fantastic so what are some of the

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pseudoscience and fallacies and urban

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legends or myths that you've come across

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on your show I don't either stand out to

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you at all well probably can I say one

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thing about books on Diaz first because

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I actually did an episode about the

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issue the free free will someone sent me

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a book that she had edited called the

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myth of free will actually should give

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her credit her name is Chris evett and

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she lives in Hawaii and she has a book

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that has pieces by people like Daniel

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Dennett and Susan likes more land was

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that right did I say they're like black

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more I always mispronounce her name and

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get email about that and I reviewed her

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book on books and ideas and one of the

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things that that I said to her was I

270
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:39,060
have a problem with you're going to say

271
00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:42,690
scientifically that because the way she

272
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:44,820
defined free will and there was the idea

273
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:48,930
that it comes from some mythical non not

274
00:11:53,540 --> 00:11:50,970
part of a not part of the brain or body

275
00:11:55,130 --> 00:11:53,550
place and I agree with that but then

276
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:55,140
some of the people would come to

277
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,450
conclusions that said well if the

278
00:12:03,650 --> 00:12:00,240
traditional idea of free will is a myth

279
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:03,660
then personal responsibility disappears

280
00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:04,890
you know the people who want to make

281
00:12:11,270 --> 00:12:07,860
their whatever is going on in their

282
00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:11,280
brain their excuse for why they did this

283
00:12:16,850 --> 00:12:15,570
or that and so she she actually let me

284
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:16,860
write a little piece for the next

285
00:12:21,260 --> 00:12:18,480
edition which came out a few months ago

286
00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:21,270
my think she I don't remember if I gave

287
00:12:26,090 --> 00:12:23,160
my piece of title but she called it my

288
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:26,100
brain made me do it yeah I don't think

289
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:28,410
that would stand up in court somehow why

290
00:12:32,270 --> 00:12:29,760
did you rob the bank well I didn't have

291
00:12:33,550 --> 00:12:32,280
any choice you know well actually people

292
00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:33,560
are trying to do that in five

293
00:12:39,970 --> 00:12:38,690
oh really in my am I um live podcast I'm

294
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:39,980
doing next at two thirty in the room

295
00:12:43,780 --> 00:12:42,770
next door I'm interviewing two people

296
00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:43,790
were going to be talking about brain

297
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:46,760
imaging and that is one of the issues so

298
00:12:49,780 --> 00:12:48,560
I actually came across a study and this

299
00:12:52,450 --> 00:12:49,790
is in the skeptical inquiry to give them

300
00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:52,460
another plug and it was conducted at the

301
00:12:56,950 --> 00:12:54,529
Max Planck Institute and it was

302
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:56,960
regarding these MRI studies you're

303
00:13:01,480 --> 00:12:59,600
talking about and it was a study to see

304
00:13:03,450 --> 00:13:01,490
if this technology could predict what

305
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:03,460
people were going to do seconds before

306
00:13:07,930 --> 00:13:06,650
they do it and so they found that there

307
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:07,940
was they predicted with seventy percent

308
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:11,330
accuracy that there was this was based

309
00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:13,610
in calculations that subjects were doing

310
00:13:19,450 --> 00:13:16,910
so I'm wondering do you think that if in

311
00:13:21,130 --> 00:13:19,460
any way brain science is going to give

312
00:13:24,370 --> 00:13:21,140
us some sort of realization of science

313
00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:24,380
fiction or of paranormal activities does

314
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:26,529
not in the way that we expect it to be

315
00:13:30,550 --> 00:13:29,360
yeah I'm familiar with the study

316
00:13:33,730 --> 00:13:30,560
although i haven't seen The Skeptical

317
00:13:36,490 --> 00:13:33,740
Inquirer article because basically it's

318
00:13:38,650 --> 00:13:36,500
a study that shows that as much as ten

319
00:13:40,030 --> 00:13:38,660
seconds ahead of time you can tell

320
00:13:41,950 --> 00:13:40,040
whether a person i think was it

321
00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:41,960
something like they were just going to

322
00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:44,180
decide to pick lever the left on the

323
00:13:48,730 --> 00:13:46,100
right or the lever on the left something

324
00:13:51,370 --> 00:13:48,740
simple like that and they found that

325
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:51,380
they could tell from the skin about ten

326
00:13:55,510 --> 00:13:52,880
seconds ahead of time what they were

327
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:55,520
going to do and all that shows is that a

328
00:13:59,710 --> 00:13:57,680
lot of our a lot of our decision-making

329
00:14:02,020 --> 00:13:59,720
happens outside of our conscious

330
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:02,030
awareness which is something that I've

331
00:14:09,070 --> 00:14:05,450
talked a lot about on the brain science

332
00:14:11,260 --> 00:14:09,080
podcast and it gets down to the idea for

333
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:11,270
me just because something happens

334
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,890
outside your conscious awareness doesn't

335
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:14,480
mean you're not responsible for it I

336
00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:16,730
mean the whole point is we got frontal

337
00:14:21,820 --> 00:14:19,790
lobes that get to veto our decisions if

338
00:14:23,650 --> 00:14:21,830
you know that you might have the urge to

339
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:23,660
hit somebody when they say something to

340
00:14:28,420 --> 00:14:24,890
you but most the time you're not going

341
00:14:30,910 --> 00:14:28,430
to do it right they do it to me yes for

342
00:14:33,970 --> 00:14:30,920
you to say that we actually decide to

343
00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:33,980
hit you oh I see and we get a pause when

344
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,630
it happens they don't be

345
00:14:40,630 --> 00:14:37,440
reinforcements they come up behind me

346
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:40,640
and go snap oh yeah hey counterexample

347
00:14:45,380 --> 00:14:43,530
do some people I'm quite fascinated by

348
00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:45,390
the work of Susan Blackmore and I heard

349
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:47,190
a very good interview with her on I

350
00:14:53,180 --> 00:14:51,360
probably was skeptic ality or st you but

351
00:14:55,490 --> 00:14:53,190
I know she's bound skeptic County yeah

352
00:14:58,010 --> 00:14:55,500
it could have been the one in fact

353
00:14:59,420 --> 00:14:58,020
here's a brief out skeptic ality yes if

354
00:15:03,170 --> 00:14:59,430
you're not listening to the zone listen

355
00:15:05,570 --> 00:15:03,180
to skeptic ality thank you or any of the

356
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:05,580
scientific skeptical podcasts but yes

357
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:07,530
she was she has come to the conclusion

358
00:15:12,110 --> 00:15:09,360
from my memory of her interview that

359
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:12,120
there's really nobody in there you know

360
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:14,130
what I mean there's no nothing deep

361
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:16,800
inside you which is yourself it's all a

362
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:19,440
bit of an illusion I found that quite

363
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:22,380
interesting yeah she's come to some what

364
00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:24,210
I think what most people would consider

365
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:27,990
a fairly radical interpretation partly I

366
00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:30,570
think because she combines the science

367
00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:35,280
with somewhat of a Buddhist view of it

368
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:37,710
you know she kind of takes the science

369
00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:40,710
and puts the the Buddhist view together

370
00:15:48,770 --> 00:15:42,270
and comes up with that there's nobody

371
00:15:52,130 --> 00:15:48,780
there my viewpoint is more like what we

372
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:52,140
have isn't is it's a it's all of us it's

373
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:54,450
our body it's our brain it's just that

374
00:16:00,020 --> 00:15:57,570
most of it most of it really isn't

375
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:00,030
consciously available to us and one of

376
00:16:04,820 --> 00:16:01,920
the topics getting back to your original

377
00:16:07,010 --> 00:16:04,830
question about Miss um let's take

378
00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:07,020
intuition and gut feelings because

379
00:16:12,829 --> 00:16:09,900
that's one that's gotten several people

380
00:16:14,570 --> 00:16:12,839
lots of money writing bestsellers people

381
00:16:17,150 --> 00:16:14,580
of you go infuse some thinking and

382
00:16:18,829 --> 00:16:17,160
feeling yeah often Nestle people come to

383
00:16:21,950 --> 00:16:18,839
me often and say what do you think about

384
00:16:24,250 --> 00:16:21,960
intuition thinking that it's part of the

385
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:24,260
paranormal I don't think it is at all

386
00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:28,170
absolutely and upon my poster on the

387
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:31,560
part you can't read one of my most

388
00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:34,650
recent guests was dr. robert burton and

389
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:36,630
i have some cds of this episode if

390
00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:38,850
anyone would like to if they if you

391
00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:41,670
haven't heard the show before he wrote a

392
00:16:47,930 --> 00:16:46,350
book called on on being certain and he

393
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:47,940
was talking about where he was he's a

394
00:16:51,449 --> 00:16:48,490
retired

395
00:16:53,850 --> 00:16:51,459
neurologists and about where you know

396
00:16:55,230 --> 00:16:53,860
when you know the answer you have that

397
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:55,240
feeling that you know something the

398
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:58,240
feeling of knowing everyone has a you

399
00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:01,600
know and his book is really kind of is

400
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:04,740
about that and it's about the fact that

401
00:17:10,590 --> 00:17:07,510
that feeling of knowing is not as

402
00:17:12,449 --> 00:17:10,600
reliable as you might think I mean we we

403
00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:12,459
assume okay known that's and that's

404
00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:13,900
where that's one of the things that

405
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:15,550
comes down to being a believer or

406
00:17:21,809 --> 00:17:18,000
non-believer it's kind of where your

407
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,819
brain circuits come down okay and one of

408
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:23,439
the things he points out is that you

409
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:26,170
really can't control that so when you're

410
00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:27,730
considering say someone who no matter

411
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:29,980
how many facts you show them say well

412
00:17:35,220 --> 00:17:32,650
but I still believe in God you need to

413
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:35,230
remember that that's not a you know

414
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:37,360
they've decided to be stubborn conscious

415
00:17:43,169 --> 00:17:40,480
decision that's what's happening at

416
00:17:45,030 --> 00:17:43,179
lower levels and he argues for more

417
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:45,040
tolerance in both directions because of

418
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:48,700
that but he points out that intuition

419
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:51,910
gut feelings is not anything mystical

420
00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:54,730
it's coming from lower circuits in the

421
00:17:57,810 --> 00:17:56,710
brain coming from experience I only call

422
00:18:00,660 --> 00:17:57,820
him lower because we don't have

423
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:00,670
conscious well it does and a good

424
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:03,250
example he gave was he's a novelist this

425
00:18:07,380 --> 00:18:04,809
is his first non-fiction book and he

426
00:18:09,030 --> 00:18:07,390
said one time he was stuck writing his

427
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:09,040
book he couldn't he couldn't come up

428
00:18:14,940 --> 00:18:12,450
with a solution to one of the parts and

429
00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:14,950
then one day he woke up and he had the

430
00:18:20,940 --> 00:18:18,550
answer okay a lot of riders will say you

431
00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:20,950
know their muse gave them the answer or

432
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:22,929
the universe gave them the answer or

433
00:18:26,669 --> 00:18:24,910
something like that well he'd been

434
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:26,679
thinking about it for AI think he'd said

435
00:18:33,150 --> 00:18:30,850
six months so it was percula way

436
00:18:35,549 --> 00:18:33,160
percolating around down there in his

437
00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:35,559
brain not in some mystical place and

438
00:18:41,070 --> 00:18:37,990
finally came out but the other point he

439
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:41,080
makes is that those ideas feel different

440
00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:45,130
because we don't have that that sense of

441
00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:47,740
effort that we have when we are

442
00:18:51,930 --> 00:18:49,750
consciously thinking about something and

443
00:18:55,290 --> 00:18:51,940
we solve the problem that feels

444
00:18:58,020 --> 00:18:55,300
different to us then when it feels like

445
00:19:00,720 --> 00:18:58,030
it popped out of nowhere and that's you

446
00:19:01,110 --> 00:19:00,730
know that gives us the the sense that it

447
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:01,120
could

448
00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:03,520
from someplace mystical well you've

449
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:05,080
heard the expression I'll sleep on it

450
00:19:08,910 --> 00:19:07,450
for exactly and in my own personal

451
00:19:11,850 --> 00:19:08,920
experience the number of times in my

452
00:19:14,010 --> 00:19:11,860
life my life I've actually dreamt the

453
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,020
correct answer to a problem I was having

454
00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:17,440
at the time or the solution or something

455
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:19,809
came to me in a dream but I'm fully

456
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:21,730
aware is because my mind was working

457
00:19:27,420 --> 00:19:25,450
furiously on the problem but see you

458
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:27,430
have to realize that that's your model

459
00:19:30,990 --> 00:19:28,960
of how it works and a lot of other

460
00:19:33,150 --> 00:19:31,000
people when that same answer they sleep

461
00:19:37,710 --> 00:19:33,160
on that same answer and their model of

462
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:37,720
the world is that their muse or or

463
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:40,480
whatever they call it God even some

464
00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:42,570
people think the answers come from God

465
00:19:47,370 --> 00:19:46,030
and that because you you can't tell with

466
00:19:50,510 --> 00:19:47,380
your conscious mind where it came from

467
00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:50,520
so you're your model of how it works is

468
00:19:55,980 --> 00:19:52,660
directly going to influence what you

469
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:55,990
think happened I have a question regards

470
00:20:00,360 --> 00:19:57,520
to your own particular experience

471
00:20:01,410 --> 00:20:00,370
working in emergency wards one of the

472
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:01,420
things that I've always been intrigued

473
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:05,290
by people's attitude that if people have

474
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:06,850
particular superstitious beliefs or

475
00:20:10,620 --> 00:20:09,130
particular tendencies yeah it can range

476
00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:10,630
from anything to all they're just

477
00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:12,990
mentally ill 20 they just eccentric

478
00:20:18,450 --> 00:20:15,820
within the emergency ward do you get

479
00:20:19,890 --> 00:20:18,460
occasional superstitions I mean people

480
00:20:21,450 --> 00:20:19,900
who are working there under obviously an

481
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:21,460
immense stress they're highly qualified

482
00:20:24,690 --> 00:20:23,110
people they're dealing with snap

483
00:20:27,299 --> 00:20:24,700
decisions yeah things have to get done

484
00:20:31,310 --> 00:20:27,309
and yet I've heard that the q''-word

485
00:20:34,380 --> 00:20:31,320
cannot be mentioned some oh it's

486
00:20:35,790 --> 00:20:34,390
absolutely so quiet night if you say

487
00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:35,800
that boom everything

488
00:20:40,890 --> 00:20:38,560
there has been so many studies into

489
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:40,900
whether or not all about him is going to

490
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:43,210
the key word was quack so my key word is

491
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:45,280
quiet something guys crying so they

492
00:20:49,740 --> 00:20:47,200
everything goes crazy no not the cracker

493
00:20:52,170 --> 00:20:49,750
but quiet it's a quiet night or even oh

494
00:20:55,140 --> 00:20:52,180
yeah even the idea of a full moon though

495
00:20:57,570 --> 00:20:55,150
and the these two things illustrate the

496
00:21:01,440 --> 00:20:57,580
fact that one of the ways our brains are

497
00:21:05,250 --> 00:21:01,450
wired is that they we overweight our own

498
00:21:08,670 --> 00:21:05,260
personal experience so as an emergency

499
00:21:11,250 --> 00:21:08,680
room doctor I've had many Oh night in

500
00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:11,260
which there really seemed to be a

501
00:21:14,850 --> 00:21:13,300
correspondence between the increased

502
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:14,860
number of crazy people and the fact that

503
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:18,450
it happened to be a full moon now I know

504
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:20,710
logically that all the studies show

505
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:24,370
that's not true yeah but it feels it

506
00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:26,290
feels that way hey Anna man definitely

507
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:29,140
on the on the on the don't say quiet I

508
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:31,120
mean that's not the only one but that's

509
00:21:36,210 --> 00:21:33,250
a good example I mean I have a friend

510
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:36,220
who became a helicopter nurse because

511
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:38,290
she enjoyed more excitement than the ER

512
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:43,450
and um it's a sick helicopters is it now

513
00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:47,440
reaching and so she when she first

514
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:48,580
started doing this she was still working

515
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:51,310
in the ER and one of the things that the

516
00:21:58,260 --> 00:21:54,130
people that work on the helicopters are

517
00:22:00,180 --> 00:21:58,270
very good at is they're good at putting

518
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:00,190
airways and intubating people when they

519
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:02,530
are having trouble breathing and so one

520
00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:04,750
day she was about to go off duty at like

521
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:07,420
five or six and she said something like

522
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:10,240
I really wish we would have a code so i

523
00:22:16,110 --> 00:22:13,930
could intubate somebody oh and then i

524
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:16,120
thought i couldn't believe it so surely

525
00:22:21,210 --> 00:22:18,370
uh you know what goes with the onus she

526
00:22:23,790 --> 00:22:21,220
leaves she leaves after she leaves

527
00:22:26,010 --> 00:22:23,800
that's what happens Wow well you see

528
00:22:27,540 --> 00:22:26,020
that sticks in your head you know you

529
00:22:29,610 --> 00:22:27,550
might know logically that there's no

530
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:29,620
connection but you're remembering we

531
00:22:33,980 --> 00:22:31,710
still tease her about that

532
00:22:36,260 --> 00:22:33,990
and you remember the hits and you forget

533
00:22:37,669 --> 00:22:36,270
the messes as well exactly thing with

534
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:37,679
rather full moon is I've had discussions

535
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:40,850
with people and it's like telling them

536
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:43,049
their mother was not their mother or

537
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:45,090
something like that or the world is flat

538
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,510
I mean people generally accept the fact

539
00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:51,360
the full moon brings out the crazy

540
00:22:56,210 --> 00:22:53,820
people and all sorts of hospitals and

541
00:22:58,039 --> 00:22:56,220
police go nuts on a full moon as its

542
00:22:59,870 --> 00:22:58,049
entrenched as a foreclosure to leave

543
00:23:01,700 --> 00:22:59,880
about there's another similar one

544
00:23:03,049 --> 00:23:01,710
amongst teachers that weep it's a windy

545
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:03,059
day on the playground the kids are going

546
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:05,970
to go crazy really yeah yeah the odds

547
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:07,470
windy day at all the kids are going to

548
00:23:11,899 --> 00:23:09,360
be totally uncontrollable and so have

549
00:23:13,490 --> 00:23:11,909
you heard that one anybody must be in

550
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:13,500
Australia might be an Australian one but

551
00:23:17,389 --> 00:23:15,720
I've had that one goes the other way in

552
00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:17,399
Australia maybe that's the head and all

553
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:19,289
they could see a calm down wraps what's

554
00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:21,090
the one about ships taking off and if

555
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:22,470
you see a priest or something it's bad

556
00:23:27,409 --> 00:23:24,720
luck yeah yeah there's all sorts of ones

557
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:27,419
in across a variety of um yeah fields

558
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:29,250
and that's why emergency handling and

559
00:23:33,860 --> 00:23:31,440
naughty mean in my hospital one of the

560
00:23:35,779 --> 00:23:33,870
hospitals i work at has its own ghost

561
00:23:39,049 --> 00:23:35,789
whose name I can't remember right now

562
00:23:41,570 --> 00:23:39,059
but enough to investigate he hasn't been

563
00:23:43,820 --> 00:23:41,580
seen recently so seeing I kisses wrong

564
00:23:45,620 --> 00:23:43,830
way you haven't seen him that no no

565
00:23:47,269 --> 00:23:45,630
nobody's seen him but you know what's

566
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:47,279
the deal his but i can remember once

567
00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:51,090
about 15 years ago I work in a very

568
00:23:55,730 --> 00:23:52,440
small hospital that doesn't have them

569
00:23:58,340 --> 00:23:55,740
work so if somebody dies and you're

570
00:24:00,110 --> 00:23:58,350
waiting for the corner to come get their

571
00:24:02,659 --> 00:24:00,120
body it has to stay in the emergency

572
00:24:04,010 --> 00:24:02,669
room until they come and I was working

573
00:24:06,649 --> 00:24:04,020
with a nurse who was very superstitious

574
00:24:08,810 --> 00:24:06,659
and it was not it was very late at night

575
00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:08,820
so her and I were the only ones there

576
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:11,070
she was very uncomfortable with the idea

577
00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:13,440
that that you know the patient's body

578
00:24:21,380 --> 00:24:15,240
was going to be down there with her

579
00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:21,390
alone until the till the no no I don't

580
00:24:24,980 --> 00:24:23,070
think that it wasn't a coroner this case

581
00:24:27,470 --> 00:24:24,990
it's just the funeral home came to get

582
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:27,480
so yeah I mean obviously people working

583
00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:29,610
in the moon probably where more would be

584
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:31,860
more prone to such superstitious yelling

585
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:34,049
thinking just because we see such

586
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:39,210
extremes of behavior yeah I was

587
00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:40,320
wondering this is something that was

588
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:43,350
raised in another one of the pod science

589
00:24:45,529 --> 00:24:44,730
panels that have been going on there's

590
00:24:47,479 --> 00:24:45,539
been so many go

591
00:24:49,159 --> 00:24:47,489
on and I think if anyone else is

592
00:24:51,379 --> 00:24:49,169
interested in creating a show definitely

593
00:24:53,749 --> 00:24:51,389
draw upon the resources that we have

594
00:24:56,930 --> 00:24:53,759
here at at dragoncon with the Dragon Con

595
00:24:59,180 --> 00:24:56,940
a dragon pod track it was mentioned in

596
00:25:02,119 --> 00:24:59,190
one of the presentations a panel yawn

597
00:25:03,859 --> 00:25:02,129
issues with patients demanding certain

598
00:25:07,609 --> 00:25:03,869
treatments because they've seen it on

599
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:07,619
television and I know that you had

600
00:25:10,969 --> 00:25:09,450
challenged that and said in fact it has

601
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:10,979
allowed for a greater understanding of

602
00:25:16,669 --> 00:25:13,710
your job I was one if you might like to

603
00:25:18,589 --> 00:25:16,679
elaborate upon that yeah because I know

604
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:18,599
most people probably was born at that

605
00:25:23,299 --> 00:25:21,840
panel yeah we the the subject of the

606
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:23,309
show house came up because the other

607
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:25,710
physicians yes the other physician on

608
00:25:29,899 --> 00:25:27,210
the panel is an infectious disease

609
00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:29,909
specialist and so they were kind of

610
00:25:38,479 --> 00:25:32,190
asking him about about house because

611
00:25:41,419 --> 00:25:38,489
house is I'm not going to go there we

612
00:25:44,499 --> 00:25:41,429
have I can edit this later yeah say what

613
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:44,509
you like my husband loves the show I

614
00:25:50,089 --> 00:25:48,690
feel that you know we have enough public

615
00:25:51,979 --> 00:25:50,099
relations problems as it is without

616
00:25:55,399 --> 00:25:51,989
somebody with as bad of a bedside manner

617
00:25:58,729 --> 00:25:55,409
as him sensationalized but what I said

618
00:26:01,159 --> 00:25:58,739
was er when ER and ER has been out 11 or

619
00:26:03,739 --> 00:26:01,169
12 years and I've been an ER doctor

620
00:26:05,810 --> 00:26:03,749
since 1992 so that does a little bit

621
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:05,820
further back and I remember when ER came

622
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:09,090
out I was afraid that the people were

623
00:26:14,479 --> 00:26:10,799
going to start coming into the ER and

624
00:26:16,430 --> 00:26:14,489
asked me um well no I was afraid that

625
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:16,440
they were going to come in and expect to

626
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:20,220
be diagnosed in five minutes because

627
00:26:23,509 --> 00:26:22,080
everything happens so fast on that show

628
00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:23,519
and if you've ever really been to a real

629
00:26:30,259 --> 00:26:25,049
er you know everything happens really

630
00:26:31,820 --> 00:26:30,269
really slowly triage and so that's what

631
00:26:33,049 --> 00:26:31,830
I was afraid of that was people were

632
00:26:35,389 --> 00:26:33,059
going to happen where people were going

633
00:26:37,789 --> 00:26:35,399
to have unrealistic expectations about

634
00:26:38,899 --> 00:26:37,799
how the system was going to work but

635
00:26:42,879 --> 00:26:38,909
that isn't what happened what happened

636
00:26:45,139 --> 00:26:42,889
was that before that people are

637
00:26:48,859 --> 00:26:45,149
emergency medicine is a relatively young

638
00:26:51,169 --> 00:26:48,869
specialty and in the old days IE the 60s

639
00:26:53,989 --> 00:26:51,179
and 70s if you went to the emergency

640
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,999
room you would see a resident who is

641
00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:55,440
still in training who was moonlighting

642
00:26:59,900 --> 00:26:57,720
to make some money and so people would

643
00:27:01,700 --> 00:26:59,910
and they would think they would ask me

644
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:01,710
things like well you know what are you

645
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:03,570
gonna be when you grow up I think I've

646
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:05,250
gotten old enough that they don't look

647
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:07,290
like someone that's ever you know but

648
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:09,510
but when I was younger that was and that

649
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:11,420
was very you know annoying since I was

650
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:15,570
finished with my training so that's what

651
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:17,370
I meant was now people understand that

652
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:18,810
emergency medicine is an actual

653
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:21,410
specialty and they come in and so

654
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:24,930
surprisingly I think er has made people

655
00:27:29,660 --> 00:27:28,050
have more confidence in what happens to

656
00:27:32,290 --> 00:27:29,670
them I mean we have people come in and

657
00:27:34,940 --> 00:27:32,300
say that they've come to see us because

658
00:27:36,620 --> 00:27:34,950
they feel we will do a better job than

659
00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:36,630
their own doctor and that's kind of sad

660
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:39,480
oh but it's a reflection of the fact

661
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:42,570
that in America anyway physicians are so

662
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:45,530
the insurance companies are squeezing

663
00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:48,360
the physicians so tightly that they in

664
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:51,270
order to just keep their income even are

665
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:52,710
trying to squeeze more and more people

666
00:27:56,330 --> 00:27:54,570
into the schedule any of you have been

667
00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:56,340
to the doctor you know how it is you it

668
00:28:00,620 --> 00:27:58,200
feels like he's been there 30 seconds

669
00:28:02,150 --> 00:28:00,630
and he's gone and the reason for that

670
00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:02,160
and every and if you try to get an

671
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:03,270
appointment because you're sick you

672
00:28:07,010 --> 00:28:04,500
can't get one for two weeks because

673
00:28:08,540 --> 00:28:07,020
they're all booked up and that's because

674
00:28:12,740 --> 00:28:08,550
they've already got their schedule

675
00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:12,750
totally overbooked to try to make up the

676
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:14,820
difference for if you ever look at your

677
00:28:19,460 --> 00:28:17,520
insurance statement notice what the

678
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:19,470
doctor actually gets paid compared to

679
00:28:24,380 --> 00:28:22,410
what it says that they build so and Blue

680
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:24,390
Cross Blue Cross assists to arbitrarily

681
00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:27,960
decide that amount okay so so basically

682
00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:29,220
when someone comes to see me in the

683
00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:30,990
mergency room I could have spend more

684
00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:32,340
time with them then they get to spend

685
00:28:37,460 --> 00:28:34,350
with their own doctor and so they will

686
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:37,470
come that he will come to us for it

687
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:41,730
second opinion which is sort of sad and

688
00:28:46,820 --> 00:28:43,740
also disturbing since it's really not

689
00:28:48,170 --> 00:28:46,830
what we do yeah I always hope that when

690
00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:48,180
I went to hospital I'd get Hawkeye

691
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,020
Pierce actually I found it quite

692
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:54,240
interesting when Alan Alda did a series

693
00:29:00,740 --> 00:28:57,330
called a scientific american frontiers

694
00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:00,750
and he was in an operating situation

695
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:02,910
anything oh is that what you do oh and

696
00:29:07,450 --> 00:29:05,120
like he had no clue

697
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:07,460
how can this be you know I so entrenched

698
00:29:11,770 --> 00:29:08,930
by the fact that Hawkeye Pierce was a

699
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:11,780
great surgeon Hawkeye Pierce was

700
00:29:18,250 --> 00:29:15,050
definitely a i i graduated from medical

701
00:29:20,380 --> 00:29:18,260
school in 1984 so back then mash was

702
00:29:23,049 --> 00:29:20,390
constantly being shown in reruns and it

703
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:23,059
was like a thing everybody watched every

704
00:29:26,770 --> 00:29:25,010
day it was a total inspiration to the

705
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:26,780
people of my generation of doctors for

706
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:29,690
sure and probably in an influence on my

707
00:29:33,730 --> 00:29:31,610
wanting to be an emergency room doctors

708
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:33,740
great well thank you to Alan Alda and

709
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:35,450
thank you to ginger Campbell for being

710
00:29:42,610 --> 00:29:39,200
our first guest this afternoon well we'd

711
00:29:48,130 --> 00:29:42,620
like to present you with the great

712
00:29:49,930 --> 00:29:48,140
skeptic cd2 this is 5,000 pages 23 years

713
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:49,940
of our journal fully searchable thank

714
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:54,710
you very much I wanted a t-shirt we can

715
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:05,710
this is brian dunning from sceptile calm

716
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:08,480
skep tide is a short weekly podcast

717
00:30:12,670 --> 00:30:10,310
taking a critical look at the

718
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:12,680
pseudo-sciences that infect popular

719
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:15,050
culture whenever I'm not locked in the

720
00:30:24,940 --> 00:30:17,810
recording studio I'm listening to the

721
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:24,950
skeptic zone now it's time for dr.

722
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,950
alright hello everyone and welcome to

723
00:30:37,090 --> 00:30:34,880
the first installment of dr. Rachel

724
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:37,100
reports and this will be a short medical

725
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:39,710
based segment where I report on medical

726
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:41,570
issues alternative medicine or health

727
00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:42,950
care products that may have caught my

728
00:30:47,860 --> 00:30:45,470
interest and today I want to talk to you

729
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:47,870
about one of my bug bears live Blood

730
00:30:52,180 --> 00:30:50,690
imaging or live blood analysis some of

731
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:52,190
you may have heard of this the concept

732
00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:54,650
is quite simple your finger is pricked a

733
00:30:58,210 --> 00:30:56,870
drop of blood placed on a slide and then

734
00:31:00,360 --> 00:30:58,220
viewed on a microscope which is

735
00:31:02,350 --> 00:31:00,370
projected onto a computer monitor and

736
00:31:03,850 --> 00:31:02,360
practitioners claim to be able to make

737
00:31:06,010 --> 00:31:03,860
judgments from the shape of your blood

738
00:31:08,020 --> 00:31:06,020
cells and the contents of your blood

739
00:31:09,610 --> 00:31:08,030
about the state of your health they

740
00:31:11,980 --> 00:31:09,620
claim to see all manner of things from

741
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:11,990
bacterial fungal and viral infections

742
00:31:17,470 --> 00:31:14,290
increased acidity in the blood

743
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:17,480
undigested proteins and fats evidence of

744
00:31:23,050 --> 00:31:20,210
hormonal imbalances and as a rescue otic

745
00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:23,060
plug which is all part of a scheme to

746
00:31:27,340 --> 00:31:25,520
sell you their magic potion commonly in

747
00:31:29,290 --> 00:31:27,350
the form of overpriced vitamin powders

748
00:31:31,060 --> 00:31:29,300
or supplements and I think even

749
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:31,070
Wikipedia got it right this time with

750
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:32,960
their description of life blood analysis

751
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:35,840
as an unestablished diagnostic test

752
00:31:40,210 --> 00:31:38,240
promoted by some alternative medical

753
00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:40,220
practitioners who assert it can diagnose

754
00:31:44,380 --> 00:31:42,740
a range of diseases there is no

755
00:31:46,330 --> 00:31:44,390
scientific evidence that life blood

756
00:31:48,580 --> 00:31:46,340
analysis can detect any disease state

757
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:48,590
and it has been described by an expert

758
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:49,610
on complementary and alternative

759
00:31:54,610 --> 00:31:52,730
medicine as a fraudulent means of

760
00:31:56,380 --> 00:31:54,620
convincing a patient they are ill and

761
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:56,390
require treatment with dietary

762
00:32:01,450 --> 00:31:59,120
supplements and this quote comes from

763
00:32:03,340 --> 00:32:01,460
Ed's odd Ernst who is the world's first

764
00:32:04,930 --> 00:32:03,350
professor of complementary medicine at

765
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:04,940
the University of Exeter and the

766
00:32:08,779 --> 00:32:06,330
university of plymouth in the

767
00:32:10,639 --> 00:32:08,789
UK who recently published the book trick

768
00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:10,649
or treatment with uk-based science

769
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:13,110
writer Simon Singh so he knows his stuff

770
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:17,580
so how does it work or not work well

771
00:32:21,860 --> 00:32:19,890
life blood analysis practitioners refer

772
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:21,870
to these microscopy images of your blood

773
00:32:26,180 --> 00:32:23,940
and then they try to find a match to

774
00:32:28,220 --> 00:32:26,190
your sample and then loudly proclaim

775
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:28,230
they have a cure for you usually in the

776
00:32:33,169 --> 00:32:31,590
form of these expensive supplements now

777
00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:33,179
some of the diseases they claim they can

778
00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:36,299
treat are generally unrelated some of

779
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:37,860
the more interesting ones i came across

780
00:32:42,379 --> 00:32:39,929
when i was doing some research for this

781
00:32:45,409 --> 00:32:42,389
include free radical damage to the blood

782
00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:45,419
cells undigested proteins and fats as i

783
00:32:49,940 --> 00:32:46,860
just mentioned but this is not an

784
00:32:51,950 --> 00:32:49,950
illness evidence of smoking now this is

785
00:32:53,779 --> 00:32:51,960
interesting because damn I had no idea I

786
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:53,789
was a smoker until you did my life blood

787
00:32:59,240 --> 00:32:56,970
analysis alcohol well just alcohol do

788
00:33:02,450 --> 00:32:59,250
you mean too little too much god I could

789
00:33:03,649 --> 00:33:02,460
use a drink right now stress now after I

790
00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:03,659
skoura dick clark caught my interest

791
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:05,880
because some i work in heart disease

792
00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:08,970
research and nobody told me we've spent

793
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:10,380
decades looking for blood-borne

794
00:33:14,419 --> 00:33:12,000
biological markers that could indicate

795
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:14,429
the presence of plugs and i had no idea

796
00:33:20,180 --> 00:33:17,250
that existed so obviously i'm wasting my

797
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:20,190
time now prices vary for a consultation

798
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:23,210
and the most expensive i came across was

799
00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:26,130
375 US dollars for the initial music and

800
00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:28,200
then a hundred and seventy five dollars

801
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:29,460
for the follow up to see if the

802
00:33:35,330 --> 00:33:32,880
treatments worked now here's the trick

803
00:33:37,129 --> 00:33:35,340
with alternative medicine peddlers they

804
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:37,139
will pepper their spell with scientific

805
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,730
sounding words to make their claims

806
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:40,799
appear more credible now I'm going to go

807
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:42,059
into this a little bit more in a minute

808
00:33:47,210 --> 00:33:44,610
but Brian Dunning talks about this as a

809
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:47,220
red flag in his fantastic presentation

810
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:49,440
here be dragons which is an introduction

811
00:33:54,350 --> 00:33:51,510
to critical thinking and if you search

812
00:33:56,830 --> 00:33:54,360
youtube or go to skip toy com you'll

813
00:33:59,000 --> 00:33:56,840
find this some video from Brian Dunning

814
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,010
but here the classic piece of what I

815
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:01,440
mean with peppering the scientific

816
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:05,490
jargon drawn from a random website so

817
00:34:11,089 --> 00:34:08,460
for our life blood cell analysis dr. Joe

818
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:11,099
Bloggs not doctors real name uses a

819
00:34:16,010 --> 00:34:13,679
sophisticated microscope called an rtm

820
00:34:16,730 --> 00:34:16,020
which is the Richardson technology

821
00:34:21,139 --> 00:34:16,740
microscope

822
00:34:24,109 --> 00:34:21,149
in places like the script center and the

823
00:34:25,609 --> 00:34:24,119
Pasteur Institute in France and is the

824
00:34:28,609 --> 00:34:25,619
only one available in the world to be

825
00:34:30,129 --> 00:34:28,619
used for life blood cell analysis now

826
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:30,139
I'm sure this is probably true

827
00:34:34,909 --> 00:34:32,490
Richardson technology microscope are

828
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:34,919
legitimate microscope manufacturers and

829
00:34:39,770 --> 00:34:37,169
also dark field microscopy is a valid

830
00:34:40,940 --> 00:34:39,780
scientific tool but that doesn't mean

831
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:40,950
that they are being used for real

832
00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:42,899
science in this case in fact I have a

833
00:34:47,450 --> 00:34:45,179
microscope in my house it sits on my

834
00:34:48,980 --> 00:34:47,460
bookshelf and look sciency perhaps I

835
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:48,990
need to assign put a sign on my

836
00:34:53,389 --> 00:34:51,330
letterbox saying all microscope upstairs

837
00:34:55,940 --> 00:34:53,399
scientific stuff whoo only a hundred

838
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:55,950
dollars to see it and here's another

839
00:35:00,890 --> 00:34:58,650
classic red flag search any of these

840
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:00,900
sites and life blood analysis is not the

841
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:03,510
only culprit here you'll find dozens and

842
00:35:07,550 --> 00:35:05,010
dozens of testimonials from satisfied

843
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:07,560
customers now this is very common

844
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:10,050
practice by we practitioners but

845
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:12,170
testimonials do not constitute evidence

846
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:14,550
the most obvious thing that comes to my

847
00:35:17,690 --> 00:35:16,050
mind is how do you know they are real

848
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:17,700
couldn't they have easily been written

849
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:19,920
by the person themselves or their wife

850
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:22,410
or their daughter or randomly generated

851
00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:24,480
from a website like testimonials for

852
00:35:28,849 --> 00:35:26,750
quacks calm not a real website and

853
00:35:30,620 --> 00:35:28,859
unfortunately Australia is not immune

854
00:35:32,270 --> 00:35:30,630
Richard Saunders and myself went

855
00:35:34,130 --> 00:35:32,280
undercover to the mind-body wallet

856
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:34,140
festival in Sydney earlier this year and

857
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:35,970
spoke with the life blood analysis

858
00:35:40,970 --> 00:35:39,450
proponent now I should explain that I am

859
00:35:44,030 --> 00:35:40,980
a cell biologist I work in heart disease

860
00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:44,040
research I have eight years of education

861
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:45,990
with a PhD from the University of Sydney

862
00:35:50,990 --> 00:35:48,480
so I'm pretty familiar with physiology

863
00:35:52,940 --> 00:35:51,000
and scientific terminology Richard on

864
00:35:54,380 --> 00:35:52,950
the other hand is a science junkie and a

865
00:35:56,030 --> 00:35:54,390
member of our cheer squad but

866
00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:56,040
essentially alignment with respect to

867
00:36:01,340 --> 00:35:58,200
jargon and of course they use this to

868
00:36:03,590 --> 00:36:01,350
their advantage and as her explanation

869
00:36:05,420 --> 00:36:03,600
progressed I noticed a patterning a

870
00:36:07,820 --> 00:36:05,430
pattern of this peppering with misplaced

871
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:07,830
scientific jargon almost as if she'd put

872
00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:09,450
a whole lot of scientific words in a hat

873
00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:11,880
and pulled them out at random and at one

874
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:15,480
point she pulled our sod now sod is an

875
00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:17,760
enzyme that I'm quite familiar with

876
00:36:22,370 --> 00:36:20,460
and in fact I wrote a section in my face

877
00:36:26,090 --> 00:36:22,380
is on side and it's an abbreviation for

878
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:26,100
superoxide dismutase it's an enzyme an

879
00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:28,560
antioxidant enzyme which detoxifies free

880
00:36:33,380 --> 00:36:31,140
radicals so when I asked her to explain

881
00:36:36,290 --> 00:36:33,390
this further I remember her explanation

882
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:36,300
quite well she said oh it's super Disney

883
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:38,250
tase ox oh I can't remember it's been a

884
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:42,210
long day hmm so now why the hell was she

885
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:44,370
dropping sod into a sales pitch for very

886
00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:46,650
expensive green barley powder escapes me

887
00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:49,320
but probably for that reason there was

888
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:51,780
no context she just she also tried to

889
00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:53,490
convince us that the shape of your blood

890
00:36:57,950 --> 00:36:55,980
cells on the slide could indicate if you

891
00:37:00,170 --> 00:36:57,960
had the correct ratio of magnesium to

892
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:00,180
calcium in your body she told us that

893
00:37:03,710 --> 00:37:02,010
the cloudy feeling you sometimes get in

894
00:37:05,780 --> 00:37:03,720
the mornings as a result of an imbalance

895
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:05,790
in this ratio but of course their

896
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:08,640
special powder will fix all that I had

897
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:10,320
previously attributed the cloudy filling

898
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:11,970
in my head to all the champagne urgh

899
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:13,530
seemed the night before but I'm willing

900
00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:17,490
to accept that an added debrief beer in

901
00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:19,320
Chinatown afterwards I asked Richard

902
00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:20,670
what he had made of her still and he

903
00:37:24,050 --> 00:37:22,740
agreed it sounded pretty impressive he

904
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:24,060
didn't answer to understand all the

905
00:37:28,130 --> 00:37:25,890
scientific jargon but that made it sound

906
00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:28,140
even more legit and this is deceitful to

907
00:37:31,940 --> 00:37:30,300
say the least so if you're still unsure

908
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:31,950
as to the efficacy of live blood

909
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,110
analysis check the fine print and

910
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:36,240
sometimes the not so fine print on the

911
00:37:41,660 --> 00:37:38,490
websites of practitioners hits when i

912
00:37:44,510 --> 00:37:41,670
came across during my research dr blogs

913
00:37:46,430 --> 00:37:44,520
does not diagnose prescribe or cure he

914
00:37:48,620 --> 00:37:46,440
simply observed the living tissue in

915
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:48,630
your body makes recommendations about

916
00:37:53,780 --> 00:37:50,730
lifestyle and gives the body what it

917
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:53,790
needs to heal itself and this statement

918
00:37:57,830 --> 00:37:55,850
appeared in bold type on the homepage

919
00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:57,840
nothing on this site should be construed

920
00:38:03,230 --> 00:38:00,660
as medical advice seek the services of

921
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:03,240
your physician for medical advice so

922
00:38:07,460 --> 00:38:05,130
that's pretty convincing that i don't

923
00:38:09,830 --> 00:38:07,470
think these treatments doing much and on

924
00:38:11,540 --> 00:38:09,840
top of that there are ongoing regulatory

925
00:38:13,820 --> 00:38:11,550
issues surrounding life blood analysis

926
00:38:17,090 --> 00:38:13,830
with unaccredited labs in the united

927
00:38:18,530 --> 00:38:17,100
states conducting the procedure in 1996

928
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:18,540
the pennsylvanian department of

929
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:19,920
laboratories informed three

930
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:22,230
pennsylvanian chiropractors that what

931
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:23,910
they refer to as nutritional blood

932
00:38:27,950 --> 00:38:25,770
analysis could not be used for

933
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:27,960
diagnostic purposes unless they maintain

934
00:38:32,579 --> 00:38:30,160
a laboratory that has both state

935
00:38:35,309 --> 00:38:32,589
federal certification and in fact their

936
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:35,319
laboratories weren't accredited on top

937
00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:38,410
of this as way back as the mid-1980s the

938
00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:40,030
National Council against health fraud

939
00:38:44,510 --> 00:38:42,190
watched three practitioners demonstrate

940
00:38:47,069 --> 00:38:44,520
live cell analysis at health expositions

941
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:47,079
the gentleman that observed this noted

942
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:49,569
that none took precautions during the

943
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:51,250
preparation of the slides to prevent the

944
00:38:55,529 --> 00:38:53,250
blood from drying out or clotting

945
00:38:57,089 --> 00:38:55,539
secondly they failed to clean their

946
00:38:59,279 --> 00:38:57,099
microscope slides carefully between

947
00:39:00,720 --> 00:38:59,289
patients which meant that dirt seen

948
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:00,730
under the microscope could be

949
00:39:05,039 --> 00:39:02,910
misinterpreted as blood components and

950
00:39:07,529 --> 00:39:05,049
some of the patterns one practitioner

951
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:07,539
saw resulted from his microscope being

952
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:10,000
out of focus and disappeared when it was

953
00:39:16,829 --> 00:39:14,170
adjusted properly in addition to this in

954
00:39:18,930 --> 00:39:16,839
Australia in April 2008 a naturopathic

955
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:18,940
practice live blood analysis was banned

956
00:39:23,849 --> 00:39:22,210
for life following multiple charges for

957
00:39:27,029 --> 00:39:23,859
advertisements which contravene the fair

958
00:39:29,339 --> 00:39:27,039
trading act and in 2007 he was acquitted

959
00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:29,349
of manslaughter after 37 year old man

960
00:39:33,539 --> 00:39:31,750
with chronic kidney disease died after

961
00:39:36,539 --> 00:39:33,549
suspending his conventional treatment to

962
00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:36,549
follow the natural pat's regimen so

963
00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:38,470
essentially live blood analysis is a

964
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,270
front for selling you some expensive

965
00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:42,400
cocktail of herbs or vitamins in

966
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:44,200
Australia the test costs about one

967
00:39:48,269 --> 00:39:46,000
hundred and fifty dollars but then the

968
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:48,279
potions are much more in some cases one

969
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:50,170
hundred and five dollars per kilo for

970
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:52,480
green barley powder and of course you

971
00:39:56,279 --> 00:39:54,250
are not cured with just one course this

972
00:39:58,019 --> 00:39:56,289
is a repeat business venture and you

973
00:40:01,140 --> 00:39:58,029
need to return for a follow-up visit to

974
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:01,150
demonstrate that you are cured I have

975
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:02,710
recently discovered the existence of

976
00:40:07,289 --> 00:40:04,930
dead cell analysis and hair mineral

977
00:40:20,910 --> 00:40:07,299
analysis too but that's another time for

978
00:40:26,460 --> 00:40:22,950
the first time that I had an opportunity

979
00:40:28,350 --> 00:40:26,470
to wear a stop Sylvia Browne t-shirt was

980
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:28,360
that the Australian skeptics national

981
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:30,330
convention held in Melbourne back in

982
00:40:36,270 --> 00:40:33,970
2006 this year I was stopped Sylvia

983
00:40:38,190 --> 00:40:36,280
Browne t-shirt again but this time it

984
00:40:39,900 --> 00:40:38,200
was at dragoncon when I was presenting

985
00:40:42,540 --> 00:40:39,910
along with other members of the skeptic

986
00:40:44,670 --> 00:40:42,550
sire this time however it wasn't that

987
00:40:47,310 --> 00:40:44,680
the site had been launched it was about

988
00:40:49,620 --> 00:40:47,320
how the site's creator Robert Lancaster

989
00:40:52,050 --> 00:40:49,630
had just suffered a stroke and was going

990
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:52,060
through recovery in order to help with

991
00:40:57,180 --> 00:40:54,430
the financial costs of recovering from a

992
00:41:00,020 --> 00:40:57,190
stroke the friends of robert lancaster

993
00:41:02,910 --> 00:41:00,030
have made a site skeptics unite com

994
00:41:05,580 --> 00:41:02,920
where they will be selling pens fridge

995
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:05,590
magnets caps and even shirts like mine

996
00:41:10,380 --> 00:41:08,050
the stop Sylvia Browne logo will be

997
00:41:12,420 --> 00:41:10,390
featured along with another special

998
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:12,430
little character the J ref origami

999
00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:14,410
Pegasus which was created by our very

1000
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:17,860
own Richard Saunders to help Robert

1001
00:41:32,740 --> 00:41:20,530
Lancaster continue to stop Sylvia Browne

1002
00:41:42,690 --> 00:41:36,109
join us now for drinking skeptically in

1003
00:41:45,930 --> 00:41:44,310
well thank you did you will ship for

1004
00:41:47,970 --> 00:41:45,940
that lovely announcement into the think

1005
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:47,980
tank and here we are again back in our

1006
00:41:51,180 --> 00:41:49,810
favorite Club and that funny noise you

1007
00:41:55,290 --> 00:41:51,190
can hear in the background is actually a

1008
00:41:57,060 --> 00:41:55,300
mahjong contest yes the room is full of

1009
00:41:59,490 --> 00:41:57,070
people doing mahjong it's quite strange

1010
00:42:02,430 --> 00:41:59,500
I'm here with dr. Rachel done well hello

1011
00:42:04,050 --> 00:42:02,440
Richard and amanda rose okay and my

1012
00:42:06,089 --> 00:42:04,060
koala hand thank you for having it

1013
00:42:07,859 --> 00:42:06,099
excellent we're here of course in the

1014
00:42:10,530 --> 00:42:07,869
think tank and we're going to do some

1015
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:10,540
thinking and drinking cheers cheers

1016
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:16,450
Cheers don't spill any on the microphone

1017
00:42:23,579 --> 00:42:19,599
that's all for us try not to mention

1018
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:23,589
now Rachel I see you're eager you are

1019
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:25,569
eager there with your note your notes in

1020
00:42:31,950 --> 00:42:29,650
your hand the Jewish community in on the

1021
00:42:34,769 --> 00:42:31,960
North Shore in Sydney have applied to

1022
00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:34,779
build what they call a roof which is a

1023
00:42:41,819 --> 00:42:39,400
virtual wall instant is a suburb of a

1024
00:42:43,259 --> 00:42:41,829
northern but connacher because

1025
00:42:45,029 --> 00:42:43,269
apparently under Jewish law it's

1026
00:42:47,249 --> 00:42:45,039
forbidden to push or carry objects

1027
00:42:51,299 --> 00:42:47,259
beyond the private home on the Sabbath

1028
00:42:53,729 --> 00:42:51,309
day and during Holi festival is so this

1029
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:53,739
means that parents are often able to

1030
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:55,450
make up push their babies around in

1031
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:56,560
France

1032
00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:58,880
if I have elderly

1033
00:43:04,070 --> 00:43:01,920
or disabled relatives they can't push

1034
00:43:06,290 --> 00:43:04,080
them in wheelchairs either so by

1035
00:43:07,970 --> 00:43:06,300
building this virtual wall this will

1036
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:07,980
give them an area outside of which they

1037
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:10,050
are allowed to push them this is

1038
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:11,760
reported in today's paper this is

1039
00:43:16,460 --> 00:43:13,170
reported in The Sydney Morning Herald

1040
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:16,470
last week all right okay so in fact

1041
00:43:23,180 --> 00:43:18,900
there is already a partly constructed a

1042
00:43:25,460 --> 00:43:23,190
roof in rats and eyes but what they want

1043
00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:25,470
to do is just use currently existing

1044
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:27,780
telegraph poles and cables and then just

1045
00:43:33,650 --> 00:43:31,170
string wire between them to D mark the

1046
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:33,660
area so they've put in a development

1047
00:43:39,020 --> 00:43:36,560
application and not surprisingly the

1048
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:39,030
science relevant residents are not

1049
00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:41,370
particularly happy about this so

1050
00:43:45,290 --> 00:43:43,350
that hasn't been approved at this point

1051
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:45,300
but some of the residents believe it

1052
00:43:49,340 --> 00:43:46,650
will block their views and create a

1053
00:43:51,110 --> 00:43:49,350
Jewish ghetto it's a good candy I don't

1054
00:43:52,970 --> 00:43:51,120
know what to say about it that's a very

1055
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:52,980
strange honor hmm I've not heard this

1056
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:55,110
before I do mean I mean I really didn't

1057
00:43:57,590 --> 00:43:56,310
know that you weren't allowed to push

1058
00:43:59,300 --> 00:43:57,600
things on the Sabbath but I didn't

1059
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:59,310
realize that you could get around that

1060
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:02,160
law by building on a roof they're worth

1061
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:08,070
adults yeah me too Apollo in both the

1062
00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:11,610
giver comments rather that's in direct

1063
00:44:17,780 --> 00:44:16,230
flight from someone saying off I mean

1064
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:17,790
it's not going to be anything but

1065
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,010
wouldn't be happening anyway and it's

1066
00:44:25,250 --> 00:44:22,640
only the people who are in that area

1067
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:25,260
cousin wouldn't indeed on anybody else

1068
00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:27,090
really wouldn't well not really because

1069
00:44:34,820 --> 00:44:29,880
according to this article it's going to

1070
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:34,830
use existing polls and just add wire so

1071
00:44:37,310 --> 00:44:35,970
really the only thing that's going to

1072
00:44:39,890 --> 00:44:37,320
happen is I'll be wire strung between

1073
00:44:41,870 --> 00:44:39,900
polls to indicate which where this area

1074
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:41,880
leads this is the ghetto thing I've been

1075
00:44:45,770 --> 00:44:44,160
quite find that reasonably offensive an

1076
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:45,780
engine in it you Sparkle yeah

1077
00:44:51,390 --> 00:44:48,400
connotations of attendance kiddo

1078
00:44:54,370 --> 00:44:51,400
carry on about I mean they might well be

1079
00:44:59,720 --> 00:44:57,920
controller well all I know is this

1080
00:45:01,730 --> 00:44:59,730
article says that some types of

1081
00:45:05,870 --> 00:45:01,740
residents say it will block their views

1082
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:05,880
and create a quote Jewish ghetto sounds

1083
00:45:10,460 --> 00:45:08,010
like a media busy life residents need to

1084
00:45:12,290 --> 00:45:10,470
chill out well this is interesting

1085
00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:12,300
actually this is article appeared on

1086
00:45:16,490 --> 00:45:15,240
about page 12 that's what matters I

1087
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:16,500
didn't see the article I feel there was

1088
00:45:20,780 --> 00:45:19,050
some follow up letters yeah it wasn't

1089
00:45:22,819 --> 00:45:20,790
very well publicized it was sort of

1090
00:45:24,829 --> 00:45:22,829
stuck in the back part of the paper but

1091
00:45:27,410 --> 00:45:24,839
um I just thought it was interesting I

1092
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:27,420
didn't realize that there was such a

1093
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:29,130
thing I have already informed that they

1094
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:35,780
traffic lights that are automatic that

1095
00:45:41,089 --> 00:45:37,410
you don't have to push you just wait

1096
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:41,099
there and it changes yeah was that meant

1097
00:45:46,579 --> 00:45:43,170
for to overcome that and that sort of

1098
00:45:48,109 --> 00:45:46,589
it's the same as this but it's very

1099
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:48,119
interesting i wonder if listeners in

1100
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:49,890
other parts of the world would have

1101
00:45:54,050 --> 00:45:51,690
similar experiences in their cities

1102
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:54,060
maybe they can write it in toes so yeah

1103
00:46:00,290 --> 00:45:57,810
you visit our website skeptic zone TV

1104
00:46:03,859 --> 00:46:00,300
and go to the about us you can email

1105
00:46:05,660 --> 00:46:03,869
each of us in the VNC cavity we all have

1106
00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:05,670
our own individual email addresses on

1107
00:46:11,060 --> 00:46:08,910
that page yeah so thanks Rachel it so

1108
00:46:14,359 --> 00:46:11,070
that's a slightly unusual but

1109
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:14,369
interesting story Michael would be happy

1110
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:16,770
I have a story about the American

1111
00:46:20,990 --> 00:46:19,440
musician Prince oh yes prince has been

1112
00:46:24,829 --> 00:46:21,000
currently promoting a book about himself

1113
00:46:26,569 --> 00:46:24,839
for 21 knots it was in the prints in the

1114
00:46:27,950 --> 00:46:26,579
artist to his known as Prince and then

1115
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:27,960
he was some sort of squiggle and now

1116
00:46:32,210 --> 00:46:29,880
he's Prince again that's right ok cool

1117
00:46:34,589 --> 00:46:32,220
is he spoke to Prince analogy because

1118
00:46:36,839 --> 00:46:34,599
yeah he was the artist formerly known as

1119
00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:36,849
then he is back to turn style and he's

1120
00:46:43,380 --> 00:46:41,710
50 this year isn't it so it stinks right

1121
00:46:47,309 --> 00:46:43,390
that's right blue and Madonna Madonna

1122
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:47,319
yeah I'm not sure about 50 1050 other

1123
00:46:51,660 --> 00:46:48,640
day in fact that was a trivia question

1124
00:46:53,999 --> 00:46:51,670
we got didn't did we well me one trivia

1125
00:46:56,729 --> 00:46:54,009
few weeks ago probably anyway sorry

1126
00:46:58,380 --> 00:46:56,739
Michael keep going well you may know

1127
00:47:01,620 --> 00:46:58,390
that Prince became the Jehovah's Witness

1128
00:47:07,469 --> 00:47:01,630
in 2001 I didn't he Annie goes how's the

1129
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:07,479
house to preach about his faith I'm told

1130
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:11,200
USA Today this week that is often chased

1131
00:47:16,410 --> 00:47:13,930
through the streets by his fans as he

1132
00:47:18,299 --> 00:47:16,420
tries to convert them to the Bible you

1133
00:47:24,299 --> 00:47:18,309
make you didn't run towards them in a

1134
00:47:26,789 --> 00:47:24,309
cast away from them are you make a good

1135
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:26,799
point I'd be immensely impressed with

1136
00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:29,410
Prince came to my door but he is so

1137
00:47:34,620 --> 00:47:31,569
devoted to his faith that he even takes

1138
00:47:37,109 --> 00:47:34,630
the Bible to business meetings where did

1139
00:47:39,209 --> 00:47:37,119
you get this information well this is

1140
00:47:41,069 --> 00:47:39,219
he's because he's been promoting his

1141
00:47:43,499 --> 00:47:41,079
book he's been doing a lot of interviews

1142
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:43,509
and a lot of talks relating to this book

1143
00:47:48,209 --> 00:47:46,690
and CD which is coming out but one of

1144
00:47:50,190 --> 00:47:48,219
the things I didn't know is he supports

1145
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:50,200
intelligent design I didn't know that

1146
00:47:53,999 --> 00:47:52,089
either he actually does support

1147
00:47:57,260 --> 00:47:54,009
intelligent design this is a man that's

1148
00:47:59,360 --> 00:47:57,270
16 grammy awards and an Academy Award

1149
00:48:03,110 --> 00:47:59,370
well there you go he must be on the

1150
00:48:07,310 --> 00:48:03,120
border well I was wondering why I was

1151
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:07,320
wondering why he would you know be

1152
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:10,410
praying to Jesus and I came to the

1153
00:48:18,140 --> 00:48:12,690
conclusion he must pay to Jesus because

1154
00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:18,150
he wants to be taller it's okay on his

1155
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:20,460
record she's quite close acd listening

1156
00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:24,720
clearly because he's not growing well

1157
00:48:28,670 --> 00:48:26,700
that's something I didn't know so the

1158
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:28,680
fact that he supports intelligent design

1159
00:48:34,090 --> 00:48:30,090
has that come out throughout the course

1160
00:48:37,850 --> 00:48:34,100
of his interviews for each book that's

1161
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:37,860
disappointing the last time we were

1162
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:40,530
discussing a star in the think tank it

1163
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:43,770
was thinking Scientology you haven't

1164
00:48:47,900 --> 00:48:44,970
heard anything more about that Martin

1165
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:47,910
can you no I haven't but I did read some

1166
00:48:52,430 --> 00:48:50,490
information relating to Swedish

1167
00:48:53,540 --> 00:48:52,440
taxpayers and they've been indirectly

1168
00:48:56,330 --> 00:48:53,550
supporting the Church of Scientology

1169
00:48:58,640 --> 00:48:56,340
through local government contracts given

1170
00:49:00,260 --> 00:48:58,650
two front organizations with ties

1171
00:49:03,770 --> 00:49:00,270
through

1172
00:49:07,820 --> 00:49:03,780
it's interesting according to a svt

1173
00:49:10,940 --> 00:49:07,830
documentary 156 of Sweden's 290 local

1174
00:49:14,990 --> 00:49:10,950
councils have contributed more than 1.4

1175
00:49:17,180 --> 00:49:15,000
million to the Scientology movement and

1176
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:17,190
what if they go to determine like when

1177
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:19,170
you say front open our mouths and other

1178
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:21,930
all those organizations actually doing

1179
00:49:26,570 --> 00:49:24,900
something to the money well their front

1180
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:26,580
groups are knocking on which is a

1181
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:28,890
supposed drug rehabilitation we're all

1182
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:30,450
use have seen the man in the air and

1183
00:49:36,410 --> 00:49:33,690
they do have other front groups they are

1184
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,420
able to obtain money through the

1185
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:38,880
government in that regard how's that now

1186
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:42,090
stopped no no it's is currently taking

1187
00:49:46,490 --> 00:49:44,490
place actually in Sweden that's right

1188
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:46,500
that surprises me because the standard a

1189
00:49:52,550 --> 00:49:49,170
vm z is pretty sensible people by german

1190
00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:52,560
quite agree hey uh the scientology

1191
00:49:57,410 --> 00:49:54,510
getting everywhere true but

1192
00:49:59,660 --> 00:49:57,420
understanding ambiens i think they're

1193
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:59,670
the least a large part of Sweden are

1194
00:50:02,750 --> 00:50:01,680
atheists are they would declare

1195
00:50:04,370 --> 00:50:02,760
themselves fear and they're pretty

1196
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:04,380
circular up there although it's an

1197
00:50:08,810 --> 00:50:06,930
efficient and smooth one actually I'm

1198
00:50:12,730 --> 00:50:08,820
sure listening to work correctly it is a

1199
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:12,740
lot simply Lutheran I don't know

1200
00:50:17,980 --> 00:50:14,960
have you people listening in Sweden

1201
00:50:20,370 --> 00:50:17,990
please write in and oh yeah and I also

1202
00:50:22,450 --> 00:50:20,380
believe that university is premium suite

1203
00:50:24,490 --> 00:50:22,460
taxes are obviously very high in most

1204
00:50:26,620 --> 00:50:24,500
parts of Scandinavia but education is

1205
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:26,630
either very cheap or it's a lovely place

1206
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:29,450
i was there in about nineteen ninety two

1207
00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:32,990
IP in sweden oh yeah you love only been

1208
00:50:37,630 --> 00:50:34,790
to Norway has I've got to sleep I

1209
00:50:40,990 --> 00:50:37,640
actually was watching on at the gym I

1210
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:41,000
was watching cable there was a show from

1211
00:50:47,380 --> 00:50:43,610
E and was called e investigates which

1212
00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:47,390
icon is it's kind of an optimizing it AE

1213
00:50:53,140 --> 00:50:49,310
entertainment investigates but in any

1214
00:50:56,830 --> 00:50:53,150
case it was about diet fads and they

1215
00:51:00,460 --> 00:50:56,840
were doing a story about the the couple

1216
00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:00,470
from Atlanta Georgia who were vegans and

1217
00:51:04,810 --> 00:51:03,110
they had a a young child and they

1218
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:04,820
decided to put their child on a vegan

1219
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:07,850
diet and after six weeks the child died

1220
00:51:11,650 --> 00:51:10,400
from starvation and they were both

1221
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:11,660
jailed for life and charged with

1222
00:51:17,050 --> 00:51:13,760
first-degree murder and child abuse and

1223
00:51:18,370 --> 00:51:17,060
it was really tragic because they

1224
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:18,380
obviously didn't mean to kill their

1225
00:51:23,620 --> 00:51:20,690
child they obviously love their son and

1226
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:23,630
but they just didn't seem to have the

1227
00:51:28,780 --> 00:51:26,000
concept that you can't put a child on a

1228
00:51:30,220 --> 00:51:28,790
diet with soy milk and lentils without

1229
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:30,230
its suffering

1230
00:51:35,710 --> 00:51:33,290
and the in fact the sister of the guy

1231
00:51:37,330 --> 00:51:35,720
who's in jail was talking to a in saying

1232
00:51:40,030 --> 00:51:37,340
that every time she visits her brother

1233
00:51:43,359 --> 00:51:40,040
he says well I didn't murder him I loved

1234
00:51:44,859 --> 00:51:43,369
my son I love to myself but I guess it

1235
00:51:46,570 --> 00:51:44,869
goes back to what you and I were talking

1236
00:51:50,170 --> 00:51:46,580
about last week to with what's the heart

1237
00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:50,180
again yeah people just don't seem to

1238
00:51:54,220 --> 00:51:51,950
have a cool about it and I will always

1239
00:51:57,490 --> 00:51:54,230
say dwell listeners please visit what's

1240
00:51:58,930 --> 00:51:57,500
the harm not yet but I have to tell you

1241
00:52:01,690 --> 00:51:58,940
Richard I almost fell off the treadmill

1242
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:01,700
and I laughed so loud its lucky I was

1243
00:52:04,570 --> 00:52:03,050
the only one at the gym because one of

1244
00:52:08,050 --> 00:52:04,580
the eyes that they were talking about

1245
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:08,060
was a detox diet and the woman was

1246
00:52:11,770 --> 00:52:10,130
saying that all you can eat is fresh

1247
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:11,780
fruit and vegetables and you have to

1248
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:14,690
juice everything so for 21 days you just

1249
00:52:19,300 --> 00:52:17,690
eat juice of and actually they showed a

1250
00:52:21,220 --> 00:52:19,310
shot of her making his wonderful

1251
00:52:24,330 --> 00:52:21,230
smoothie and there was a shot of half an

1252
00:52:28,450 --> 00:52:24,340
onion and some beet roots oh yeah my

1253
00:52:30,070 --> 00:52:28,460
sympathy of that but also as part of

1254
00:52:32,109 --> 00:52:30,080
this diet apart from just drinking the

1255
00:52:37,359 --> 00:52:32,119
juice it's also very important to

1256
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:37,369
undergo colonic irrigation and ear

1257
00:52:42,250 --> 00:52:40,130
candling so they actually had a shot of

1258
00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:42,260
this woman doing ear candling on a paper

1259
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:43,760
and that's when I almost fell off the

1260
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:46,010
treadmill and the third thing is the

1261
00:52:48,820 --> 00:52:47,359
detox through your feet you know the

1262
00:52:50,740 --> 00:52:48,830
water bath where the water goes or

1263
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:50,750
ground and that's supposed to be

1264
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:52,410
cleansing your

1265
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:54,720
who your feet for your feet absolutely

1266
00:52:58,970 --> 00:52:56,970
that sounds about as real as it sounds

1267
00:53:02,600 --> 00:52:58,980
hi I think now I'm glad you mentioned

1268
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:02,610
here can't wait are you Richard people

1269
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:05,610
either who used to listen to the skeptic

1270
00:53:10,460 --> 00:53:08,250
tank and the tank and we thank God asked

1271
00:53:12,260 --> 00:53:10,470
what's your plan come come would know

1272
00:53:15,110 --> 00:53:12,270
that our opinion ear candling and you

1273
00:53:18,110 --> 00:53:15,120
can have your very own skeptic zone no

1274
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:18,120
ear candling t-shirt yes you can you can

1275
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:21,090
visit our website skeptics on TV and

1276
00:53:25,730 --> 00:53:23,970
pull out the links to our online store

1277
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:25,740
there with the tulips there's one that

1278
00:53:30,740 --> 00:53:28,170
says homeopathic medicine there's

1279
00:53:33,710 --> 00:53:30,750
nothing to it or in it I quite like that

1280
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:33,720
one I particularly do like the no ear

1281
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:35,040
candling one because that's one of my

1282
00:53:37,980 --> 00:53:36,810
bugbears you know I think it's one of

1283
00:53:40,580 --> 00:53:37,990
yours as well as

1284
00:53:43,980 --> 00:53:40,590
I must I must tell the listeners that

1285
00:53:45,690 --> 00:53:43,990
you and I a couple of months ago we went

1286
00:53:47,820 --> 00:53:45,700
to a chemist for some reason I just got

1287
00:53:52,260 --> 00:53:47,830
into why we're shopping or something and

1288
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:52,270
then selling it but of course we had to

1289
00:54:00,450 --> 00:53:55,330
be loud about it yeah and we didn't say

1290
00:54:01,950 --> 00:54:00,460
he kills he said no scam in a loud

1291
00:54:04,859 --> 00:54:01,960
voices in your saying have we got enough

1292
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,869
nose candles at home is it you know do

1293
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:06,640
you know how much those things cost no

1294
00:54:13,290 --> 00:54:10,480
sixteen dollars 95 so how many I think

1295
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:13,300
it's maybe four or five how many do you

1296
00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:17,200
need for year in 76 at least I don't

1297
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:20,200
know but they're just I've just finished

1298
00:54:24,410 --> 00:54:21,570
reading

1299
00:54:25,460 --> 00:54:24,420
simon sings book trick or treatment

1300
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:25,470
which i think we're going to talk about

1301
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:27,450
further at some point we will it's a

1302
00:54:30,950 --> 00:54:29,490
billion yeah it is brilliant but he

1303
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:30,960
mentioned in there that the only thing

1304
00:54:35,030 --> 00:54:32,880
ear candles are good for is to posting

1305
00:54:38,530 --> 00:54:35,040
wax in your ear and or setting fire to

1306
00:54:41,330 --> 00:54:38,540
your house and I have to agree with him

1307
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:41,340
now I happen to have some astrology with

1308
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:44,280
me Richard good I'm glad someone does so

1309
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:46,770
if if anyone's any of our listeners out

1310
00:54:50,660 --> 00:54:48,480
there if it has to be your birthday this

1311
00:54:54,650 --> 00:54:50,670
month I'm just going to read out your

1312
00:54:57,560 --> 00:54:54,660
star sign and I this will be the stars

1313
00:55:01,760 --> 00:54:57,570
for virgo which is September to study

1314
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:01,770
October oh yeah now you must stop

1315
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:03,690
watching TV and start watching the radio

1316
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:06,510
remember a watched pot does in fact oil

1317
00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:08,490
you can treat your boils with cream

1318
00:55:13,310 --> 00:55:11,160
there are so many omens and some Oh

1319
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:13,320
women's that are around your aura or

1320
00:55:21,309 --> 00:55:15,960
maybe not no lucky nothing for you this

1321
00:55:25,870 --> 00:55:23,439
now these these are written by a very

1322
00:55:28,809 --> 00:55:25,880
well-known astrologer are all font all

1323
00:55:32,049 --> 00:55:28,819
and it's entitled very scientific

1324
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:32,059
astrology knowledge assets ecology

1325
00:55:37,329 --> 00:55:35,569
astrology yes and in fact I'm not just

1326
00:55:40,329 --> 00:55:37,339
read one more while I'm here this

1327
00:55:43,269 --> 00:55:40,339
classically Pisces yeah I'm hot sauce on

1328
00:55:45,309 --> 00:55:43,279
this one okay Pisces the sign of the

1329
00:55:47,739 --> 00:55:45,319
fish look out four hooks lines and

1330
00:55:49,809 --> 00:55:47,749
sinkers don't bait anyone or you'll be

1331
00:55:51,130 --> 00:55:49,819
reeling if you rock the boat you'll find

1332
00:55:53,079 --> 00:55:51,140
yourself up the creek without a paddle

1333
00:56:00,039 --> 00:55:53,089
there are no lucky numbers for you this

1334
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:00,049
month as I sold them to a Virgo now

1335
00:56:05,969 --> 00:56:02,930
where did you get those stars Rachel oh

1336
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:05,979
look I found these on in an old magazine

1337
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:08,930
from mystery investigators Richard you

1338
00:56:12,430 --> 00:56:10,880
now I think you and I have something to

1339
00:56:16,209 --> 00:56:12,440
do with mystery investigators don't we

1340
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:16,219
this is from 2005 magazine numbering I

1341
00:56:20,829 --> 00:56:18,170
mean all portals will have to write some

1342
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:20,839
more oh yeah we will have to write some

1343
00:56:26,109 --> 00:56:23,089
more yes they're very funny if you want

1344
00:56:27,279 --> 00:56:26,119
to find out your astrology there's a

1345
00:56:29,529 --> 00:56:27,289
free download on the mystery

1346
00:56:32,290 --> 00:56:29,539
investigated website mr. investigators

1347
00:56:35,110 --> 00:56:32,300
but calm and just download the magnet

1348
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:35,120
you're funny star signs I'll just read

1349
00:56:39,430 --> 00:56:36,650
one more Richard because it's my

1350
00:56:41,230 --> 00:56:39,440
birthday in a month or so in fact as

1351
00:56:43,690 --> 00:56:41,240
yours as well it is both born in

1352
00:56:46,930 --> 00:56:43,700
November yes so we're Scorpios according

1353
00:56:48,490 --> 00:56:46,940
to this earth astrology your lucky

1354
00:56:50,650 --> 00:56:48,500
number can be worked out by using the

1355
00:56:52,780 --> 00:56:50,660
science of numerology and your birthdate

1356
00:56:53,980 --> 00:56:52,790
numbers together at your birthdate

1357
00:56:56,050 --> 00:56:53,990
numbers together which will give you

1358
00:56:57,790 --> 00:56:56,060
your life number add this to the current

1359
00:56:59,110 --> 00:56:57,800
year to get your past life number add

1360
00:57:02,680 --> 00:56:59,120
these together with your birth date

1361
00:57:06,210 --> 00:57:02,690
again and that's it you're lucky number

1362
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:07,740
but did I think you missed your calling

1363
00:57:14,070 --> 00:57:10,450
I think they're not me it's all foggy

1364
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:14,080
sorry Oh Polly osseous I think it is oh

1365
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:16,090
I tell you what while we're thinking

1366
00:57:22,890 --> 00:57:18,730
about funny things and great times let's

1367
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:22,900
give a big shout out to Tim and Harry I

1368
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:26,050
win they're in Minnesota who I happen to

1369
00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:28,210
the show yeah because it was a really

1370
00:57:32,730 --> 00:57:30,760
big fans of the show yes Tim and Carrie

1371
00:57:34,859 --> 00:57:32,740
thank you for listening we really

1372
00:57:37,650 --> 00:57:34,869
appreciate hello Tim and Harry hello Tim

1373
00:57:39,660 --> 00:57:37,660
ferry thanks for the support well I

1374
00:57:41,130 --> 00:57:39,670
thought this was a really funny story so

1375
00:57:44,190 --> 00:57:41,140
I thought I'd had to share it with you a

1376
00:57:46,050 --> 00:57:44,200
pastor in Kenya caused a stir when he

1377
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:46,060
removed a woman's panties from his

1378
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:50,650
pocket and used into wife sweat I'm glad

1379
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,890
I said from his pocket apparently

1380
00:57:58,080 --> 00:57:55,599
thought he was using a handkerchief to

1381
00:58:01,680 --> 00:57:58,090
clear his forehead as he preached under

1382
00:58:04,650 --> 00:58:01,690
a Blazing Sun it later emerged of the

1383
00:58:06,599 --> 00:58:04,660
pastor who is married with one child had

1384
00:58:08,940 --> 00:58:06,609
spent the previous night with a member

1385
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:08,950
of his congregation after lying to his

1386
00:58:13,290 --> 00:58:11,200
wife that he was attending night long

1387
00:58:17,940 --> 00:58:13,300
prayers and would therefore be away from

1388
00:58:21,290 --> 00:58:17,950
home I thought that was classic what if

1389
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:23,660
so how'd it is how did it all come out

1390
00:58:32,750 --> 00:58:29,970
it just got in the wash I did poor guy

1391
00:58:34,190 --> 00:58:32,760
well there you go I mean you shouldn't

1392
00:58:36,110 --> 00:58:34,200
be carrying around women's panties in my

1393
00:58:39,110 --> 00:58:36,120
pocket anyway should you is that your

1394
00:58:40,730 --> 00:58:39,120
first mistake yeah yeah that's not the

1395
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:40,740
first mistake in this instance but

1396
00:58:46,970 --> 00:58:43,200
that's probably not very smart either is

1397
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:46,980
it see it happened upon and still cool

1398
00:58:53,330 --> 00:58:48,930
hey okay I'm not gonna say anything else

1399
00:58:54,620 --> 00:58:53,340
just leave that one there I don't know

1400
00:58:58,070 --> 00:58:54,630
if I want to talk about this is about

1401
00:59:00,860 --> 00:58:58,080
herpes I think it's very appropriate who

1402
00:59:03,620 --> 00:59:00,870
opted what you just said herpes he's

1403
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:03,630
gonna story about herpes yeah all right

1404
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:06,810
good it's there was a study published

1405
00:59:10,940 --> 00:59:08,370
this week in the journal of general

1406
00:59:14,570 --> 00:59:10,950
virology under jamie one general

1407
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:14,580
virology furlong urology her older yes

1408
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:17,010
are you go ahead go ahead study of

1409
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:18,960
viruses it's a known as virology I put

1410
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:22,170
my issue down somewhere what you mean

1411
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,490
you don't subscribe to the Journal of

1412
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:26,160
general virology Richard I'm sorry

1413
00:59:32,510 --> 00:59:29,930
listeners I'm sure you all do but anyway

1414
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:32,520
this is a story about a new strain of

1415
00:59:38,030 --> 00:59:35,040
herpes well not actually a new strain it

1416
00:59:40,700 --> 00:59:38,040
it's still herpes simplex virus one

1417
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:40,710
which is known as hsv-1 and that's the

1418
00:59:46,690 --> 00:59:43,280
one that causes common cold sores

1419
00:59:48,340 --> 00:59:46,700
so it's been a problem for sumo

1420
00:59:50,100 --> 00:59:48,350
wrestlers apparently because they're

1421
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:50,110
vulnerable to a more virulent strain

1422
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:52,730
which is contracted through grappling

1423
00:59:59,380 --> 00:59:57,650
their opponents now if it has become a

1424
01:00:01,120 --> 00:59:59,390
problem because two of the wrestlers

1425
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:01,130
have actually died as a result of their

1426
01:00:07,660 --> 01:00:04,400
infections what yes I know it does sound

1427
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:07,670
surprising doesn't it so this is a

1428
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:10,850
variant of hsv-1 strain of herpes it's

1429
01:00:15,610 --> 01:00:14,090
known as b gk l and it spreads more

1430
01:00:18,670 --> 01:00:15,620
efficiently and quarters more severe

1431
01:00:21,970 --> 01:00:18,680
symptoms and other strains so it's

1432
01:00:25,900 --> 01:00:21,980
highly infectious as is HSC one when

1433
01:00:27,340 --> 01:00:25,910
it's at once cold sores as well so but

1434
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:27,350
it means that players who have these

1435
01:00:30,910 --> 01:00:28,850
blisters have had to be taken out of

1436
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:30,920
competitions to prevent it from being

1437
01:00:36,580 --> 01:00:33,410
passed on to other other wrestlers and

1438
01:00:40,810 --> 01:00:36,590
it's been um it's actually known as hope

1439
01:00:47,170 --> 01:00:40,820
he's glad at it Gladia torrents or a

1440
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:47,180
scrum pox it's the common name is grampa

1441
01:00:52,510 --> 01:00:50,930
what a poison time I can favor headaches

1442
01:00:54,940 --> 01:00:52,520
and infection of the lymph nodes can

1443
01:00:59,200 --> 01:00:54,950
result from this from infection with

1444
01:01:00,970 --> 01:00:59,210
this some BK b gk l strain of hsv-1 so

1445
01:01:03,490 --> 01:01:00,980
your fountain of knowledge it's a very

1446
01:01:04,610 --> 01:01:03,500
big problem Richard and what has that

1447
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:04,620
50s

1448
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:10,170
it's medicine to science such skills but

1449
01:01:17,420 --> 01:01:15,210
a pretty tenuous link i must let me

1450
01:01:19,100 --> 01:01:17,430
paint a picture for you mr. right let's

1451
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:19,110
let it back to laugh and she whacked her

1452
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:24,150
it's not a skeptical story it's a

1453
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:27,730
medical story thank you you want me to

1454
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:30,970
register hours again oh you'll like this

1455
01:01:36,270 --> 01:01:34,330
one oh yes a church service for the

1456
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:36,280
Dutch Christian nudists has been

1457
01:01:41,070 --> 01:01:39,370
cancer-free then are the hot style

1458
01:01:44,550 --> 01:01:41,080
reactions from other more conventional

1459
01:01:50,610 --> 01:01:44,560
worshippers I'm sorry could you repeat

1460
01:01:54,020 --> 01:01:50,620
that at church that's what the blogging

1461
01:01:57,780 --> 01:01:54,030
also the boys I said the kenyans

1462
01:02:00,810 --> 01:01:57,790
Christian nudists exhibit was excused

1463
01:02:04,830 --> 01:02:00,820
this is the Dutch Christian nudists did

1464
01:02:13,170 --> 01:02:04,840
you say that's right and so was it Ben

1465
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:13,180
Hansen well because oh oh no the more

1466
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:15,370
conservative Christians don't agree with

1467
01:02:31,100 --> 01:02:28,240
it but it is Christians Oh their first

1468
01:02:33,780 --> 01:02:31,110
service in june or a clothed priest

1469
01:02:36,450 --> 01:02:33,790
presided over a nude congregation of 80

1470
01:02:38,820 --> 01:02:36,460
people in a region of the Netherlands in

1471
01:02:41,090 --> 01:02:38,830
the Netherlands this season yeah that is

1472
01:02:42,980 --> 01:02:41,100
cheating

1473
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:42,990
is that a big movement Michael today

1474
01:02:50,540 --> 01:02:46,050
particularly influential I'll stop it

1475
01:02:57,860 --> 01:02:50,550
that wasn't an innuendo we're finally

1476
01:03:02,210 --> 01:02:57,870
moving in my case landing very expanding

1477
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:02,220
LA but see Amanda's the only one here is

1478
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:08,640
keeping a straight face he almost did

1479
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:10,170
you hear this week that the Vatican has

1480
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:13,530
gone solo solo how I saw that on the

1481
01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:15,690
news for getting yeah energy from the

1482
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:17,220
heavens they are getting odd I'm

1483
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:18,690
surprised that they need to get it from

1484
01:03:24,590 --> 01:03:21,570
the Sun but in talvik all that bother

1485
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:24,600
you know where I can get it they have

1486
01:03:29,060 --> 01:03:27,330
had installed something like 1200 solar

1487
01:03:31,460 --> 01:03:29,070
power panels on the top of one of the

1488
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:31,470
buildings within American city I'm fully

1489
01:03:37,820 --> 01:03:34,170
donated by the German company that did

1490
01:03:39,630 --> 01:03:37,830
the installation and it was about one

1491
01:03:43,740 --> 01:03:39,640
and a half million

1492
01:03:48,339 --> 01:03:43,750
wows the cost but then you know Pope

1493
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:48,349
Benedict is from Bavaria news so I guess

1494
01:03:52,329 --> 01:03:50,240
the Germans hold him close to their

1495
01:03:54,099 --> 01:03:52,339
hearts do very rich it they do I'm sure

1496
01:03:56,020 --> 01:03:54,109
they do have spent some time in Germany

1497
01:04:00,490 --> 01:03:56,030
I'd expect hello to everybody will see

1498
01:04:03,700 --> 01:04:00,500
in Germany hello but you didn't see you

1499
01:04:06,250 --> 01:04:03,710
one in the barrier oh yeah you bet I

1500
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:06,260
love it down there it's great it is

1501
01:04:10,450 --> 01:04:08,450
subway it's a very beautiful beautiful

1502
01:04:12,910 --> 01:04:10,460
area actually stunningly beautiful you

1503
01:04:16,300 --> 01:04:12,920
and the people are friendly enormous a

1504
01:04:20,339 --> 01:04:16,310
blue sky three stops blue Scott which

1505
01:04:28,020 --> 01:04:24,579
Greek god Great God great no great oh

1506
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:28,030
great great blue spot right on the spot

1507
01:04:34,810 --> 01:04:30,890
great it's just a way of saying today

1508
01:04:39,500 --> 01:04:34,820
hail Apollo's it's a Hail Apollo it

1509
01:04:46,100 --> 01:04:44,570
on that interesting note of this but so

1510
01:04:48,110 --> 01:04:46,110
are you people in Germany I'd like to

1511
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:48,120
thank dr. Rachel don't look Amanda Rose

1512
01:04:52,940 --> 01:04:49,890
and Michael wala hand for joining me

1513
01:04:55,100 --> 01:04:52,950
once again in the think tank even though

1514
01:04:58,040 --> 01:04:55,110
which strains that have got a mahjong

1515
01:04:59,360 --> 01:04:58,050
tournament happening right behind us now

1516
01:05:00,770 --> 01:04:59,370
we've had quite an international show

1517
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:00,780
today Richard so I think we should all

1518
01:05:10,030 --> 01:05:03,770
say goodbye in a different language

1519
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:10,040
sayonara choose the Cydonia I've isn't

1520
01:05:16,010 --> 01:05:12,480
everyone although to sort of exhibit

1521
01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:16,020
assignment well yeah I'll let that pass

1522
01:05:20,870 --> 01:05:18,240
will it back but thank you and we'll see

1523
01:05:34,910 --> 01:05:20,880
you all again soon in pink oh thank you

1524
01:05:40,770 --> 01:05:38,310
young skeptics those of you in Australia

1525
01:05:43,350 --> 01:05:40,780
and around the world don't be fooled by

1526
01:05:48,570 --> 01:05:43,360
tall stories and impossible claims head

1527
01:05:50,340 --> 01:05:48,580
to wwn deceiving ourselves calm for easy

1528
01:05:53,010 --> 01:05:50,350
to read information about critical

1529
01:05:55,020 --> 01:05:53,020
thinking also find out about the Western

1530
01:05:59,300 --> 01:05:55,030
Australian skeptics awards for young

1531
01:06:09,589 --> 01:05:59,310
critical writers wwm deceiving ourselves

1532
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:12,390
Richard it's another fabulous zone

1533
01:06:16,109 --> 01:06:14,470
you've done a great job again I don't

1534
01:06:18,150 --> 01:06:16,119
want to get out of the zone i'm so into

1535
01:06:19,289 --> 01:06:18,160
the zone after that episode I tell you

1536
01:06:21,029 --> 01:06:19,299
what the next episode is going to be

1537
01:06:22,739 --> 01:06:21,039
interesting oh yes isn't a big

1538
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:22,749
convention from another convention other

1539
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:24,490
convention I spend my life to go into

1540
01:06:28,499 --> 01:06:26,410
convention we have the Australian

1541
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:28,509
skeptics national convention in fact I'm

1542
01:06:34,140 --> 01:06:32,410
there right now as I'm is that right the

1543
01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:34,150
way the internet works yet it's amazing

1544
01:06:37,950 --> 01:06:36,640
it all kicks off on the weekend yeah ok

1545
01:06:39,210 --> 01:06:37,960
so what's going to happen there we're

1546
01:06:40,890 --> 01:06:39,220
going to be running around interviewing

1547
01:06:42,180 --> 01:06:40,900
lots of people who are speaking at the

1548
01:06:45,359 --> 01:06:42,190
Australian skeptics convention I'm

1549
01:06:47,249 --> 01:06:45,369
meeting up with our reporter Kylie

1550
01:06:48,900 --> 01:06:47,259
Sturgis earth she's going to be there

1551
01:06:50,069 --> 01:06:48,910
I'm going to be there Rachel Dunlop is

1552
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:50,079
going to be there so we might do a sort

1553
01:06:53,759 --> 01:06:51,970
of a mini think tank on the road we'll

1554
01:06:55,470 --> 01:06:53,769
see why not you'll see in Adelaide to

1555
01:06:57,359 --> 01:06:55,480
it's a nice laid-back sort of town down

1556
01:06:59,249 --> 01:06:57,369
there and I think you'll have a good

1557
01:07:00,839 --> 01:06:59,259
time I'm I hope so lots of churches

1558
01:07:03,329 --> 01:07:00,849
there you probably go ghost hunting

1559
01:07:05,069 --> 01:07:03,339
around we just that's a great idea

1560
01:07:06,809 --> 01:07:05,079
Stefan I think we might try that every

1561
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:06,819
ghost hunt why not they're so well

1562
01:07:10,589 --> 01:07:08,410
thanks again for another great episode

1563
01:07:13,319 --> 01:07:10,599
thank you listeners for joining in once

1564
01:07:15,509 --> 01:07:13,329
again look it's always good material and

1565
01:07:17,849 --> 01:07:15,519
it's almost like a limp limitless supply

1566
01:07:18,809 --> 01:07:17,859
of material for skeptic shows isn't

1567
01:07:20,759 --> 01:07:18,819
there because there's so much crazy

1568
01:07:23,819 --> 01:07:20,769
stuff I hope so is producer I sincerely

1569
01:07:25,559 --> 01:07:23,829
hope so that's thank you once again

1570
01:07:30,370 --> 01:07:25,569
Stefan no worries it's great to be here

1571
01:07:37,450 --> 01:07:32,410
you've been listening to the skeptic

1572
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:37,460
zone visit our website at WWF digs on TV

1573
01:07:47,559 --> 01:07:40,490
the comments contacts and extra video

1574
01:07:47,569 --> 01:07:54,690
Oh